Authenticity as Asset: Turning Brand Truth into Equity

SJ Crawford (00:00)
Okay, and we're live. Welcome everybody. My name's SJ. I'm so glad you could join us today. We're gonna kind take it slow to get things kicked off as we let people kind of come on in. A little housekeeping on the bottom right of your screen. You can ask a question. We'll have Christy here to answer those questions. We will not be answering questions live because we have so much good stuff to get today.

So welcome to Authenticity as an Asset, Turning Brand Truth into Equity. I am joined by Elizabeth Millian. Elizabeth is a leading voice in intellectual property and brand protection. As a trademark attorney, Elizabeth has become one of the most sought after experts. I know I've been seeking after her. On the business impact of dupes in beauty, fashion, and consumer goods, I originally found her, and you may have found her, on the Glossy Beauty podcast, where she unpacked high profile cases like Benefit versus Elf, Supergroup versus Five Below.

She recently did a keynote for MarkVision at our IPXLA event called the Economics of Dupes, Trends, Laws, and Sustainable Growth, which is available. And if you ⁓ stay tuned towards the end of this ⁓ live event, we will have a link to that where you can go and watch that keynote. ⁓ She draws on some recent cases as well as subtle technicalities that decide them, things that I thought were super fun as she talks about how font size can make a difference. Her work, though, overall highlights the fine line between inspiration and infringement.

and why early decisive enforcement is critical to sustaining brand equity. And today she's meeting with us on the Vision series, which is a series of webinars Mark Vision has where each session brings together experts and innovators to share insights on how technology, creativity and enforcement shape brand trust. So let's give a big warm welcome to Elizabeth. Elizabeth, thank you for joining us.

Elizabeth Milian (01:39)
Thank you so much for having me.

SJ Crawford (01:41)
We're so excited to be back live with you. So Elizabeth did join us in October for our IP, or actually late September, I'm so sorry. IPXLA, our first user event where we did product demos and Elizabeth gave an amazing keynote address. Elizabeth, tell us a little bit about your experience at IPXLA and anything you noticed.

Elizabeth Milian (02:00)
So I had an amazing time at IPXLA. Thank you so much. And I know for your first event, it was really beyond every expectation. I know I came in understanding we were going to learn a lot and meet a lot of very interesting people and it exceeded every expectation I had. So hats off to everyone at MarkVision. You guys did an amazing job. And I'm still processing. It's been a few weeks. I'm still processing so many things that I learned. And we did some great.

product demos and just listening to the chatter, people were consistently saying, isn't this amazing? How can I find out more? And I personally felt very inspired. I would love to see where all of this is taking us, how it's going to serve brands and brand professionals. And there's just so much available now with AI that is really going to help in this ecosystem. So incredibly thankful for the experience.

SJ Crawford (02:57)
I it. I was even, as somebody who worked for this company, I even had a moment of like, wow, that's so cool. Or like, I hadn't actually seen some of those demos until we were all in the, we were at the Grammy museum. We were all in the theater together. And I was like, wow, wow, this is so cool. So some of those demos are really great. I will also link to those demos because I think they're really powerful as a way to kind of get a peek into it. And when Elizabeth and I were preparing for this webinar today, one thing we talked about is right now the only good way to...

Get more information on the mark vision product is to book a demo and that can be a little overwhelming right elizabeth

Elizabeth Milian (03:31)
It can be, it's, you know, certainly if you're coming in, you may not know what questions you should be asking, you know, what expectations to come in with. So I certainly feel like it's a great opportunity to see the products and try to relate it to the situations you're looking at, whether you're an attorney or working on a brand protection team.

SJ Crawford (03:50)
Amazing. So we're gonna I'm do a better job of that But if at any point in time today, you're like, want to learn more about the mark vision product We have those demos and also I encourage everyone to book a demo not because we're gonna give you a hard sell I promise um, but because it can be really helpful to get a very customized look at our product mark vision does take a very holistic approach to brand protection We don't just do one thing. Um, we do all of the things that kind of contribute to strong brand control. So

If you're on the fence, book a demo. promise it's not gonna be a hard sell. But that I'm gonna stop selling the demos right now, Elizabeth, and I'm gonna focus, because I got you today. So ⁓ what I'm excited to talk about today is authenticity. we talked, you talked at IPX about dupes and what I found most interesting, the history of dupes. And one example you gave was that as far back as, what did you say? How far back in history did dupes go, Elizabeth?

Elizabeth Milian (04:41)
We talked about the ancient Greeks and the ancient Romans. Yes, they were. you know, on the one hand it is such a long time ago, but it really speaks to human nature, which is it's human nature to be looking at the landscape around you. And there are always going to be some bad actors. ⁓ It's not always a bad actor that's going to copy you, but there's certainly room for that as well.

SJ Crawford (04:44)
It's crazy! They were doing dupes then!

And can you tell the example that you told at IPX around the stamps on the statues?

Elizabeth Milian (05:13)
yes, okay, so the ancient Romans, and I studied this in college, so it's near and dear to my heart. The ancient Romans were very concerned with prestige and reputation and how they appeared to others. So what they would do is they would look at very famous Greek sculptures, replicate them, and then they would have the stamp of the original artist carved into the replica. So it's really a counterfeit.

⁓ in terms of, you if we're going to tie it back to modern times, which is trying to pass off a copy as an original. And so we really see for thousands of years human nature, this is part of the landscape and it's still part of the landscape.

SJ Crawford (05:57)
That's so fascinating. Regardless of technology, there's just some human behaviors that just transcend. They transcend it all.

Elizabeth Milian (06:02)
Yes.

SJ Crawford (06:04)
So with all of that in mind, since obviously counterfeiting transcends all technology, why do you think audiences and investors care more about authenticity now? Or do you think they care more about it now than they did, say, five years ago?

Elizabeth Milian (06:16)
This is a great question and certainly I think it is a sign of the times. It's a sign of the times of what we're living in today. Five years ago it was a problem as well, but I generally would say we're seeing an acceleration in terms of the scope and the reach of the issue. And so it's really a reflection of what's going on. Number one, we live in a digital age and a lot of what we do in our daily lives is happening on

whether it's work, it's shopping, it's all of those things that are convenient and happen in the digital space. So that's one factor. And then when it comes to the digital space with social media, things like shopping and consumer goods, it has been said that we're currently living in a dupe culture. And it seems to be something that's incredibly relevant to now. It existed five years ago, but again, it's the...

sort of the intensity and the reach. It's here to stay. It's not going away anytime soon. And so on the one hand, with dupe culture, you have a group of people who are gonna celebrate that. And they're going to say, dupe culture and replication is not a problem because it's about access and inclusivity. That's one viewpoint. And then others, for very good reason, are saying, we see this differently.

This is raising concerns for us in the market, in our businesses about originality as well as fairness and in some situations, safety as well in terms of products. And so what do we have as a result? We have a marketplace where consumers are asking, what is real? What can I trust? Those questions are very relevant now. And, you know, it makes us wonder.

How are we going to look at authenticity? How do we perceive value when this is the climate that we're living in? And I want to bring something back about authenticity, is, regardless of what's happening in terms of our digital culture, authenticity still stands for something. And that's incredibly meaningful. Earlier, you asked me about the investor standpoint. We have the consumer standpoint. We have the investor standpoint.

From the investor standpoint, I would say there really is an understanding that brands who have strong reputations, which are built on authenticity, they're built on consumer trust and loyalty. Those companies are better positioned to weather market changes, which are inevitable. They're cyclical. And they also tend to have loyal audiences. so, you know, bringing this all together, authenticity matters. And ⁓

consumer trust will be supported by authenticity. So it's really if you're a brand and a brand owner, it's your competitive edge and it does stand for something.

SJ Crawford (09:19)
But it takes a lot of work, right? Like you see a lot of brands who are like, it's so exciting, my product's on Amazon. And then all of a sudden there's 10 more of your product on Amazon. And you're like, how do I differentiate between those two? I used to be a big believer in dupes. I'm reformed, I promise. ⁓ I'm a frugal girlie. I live in the Midwest. I love a deal. And so dupes to me initially felt quite harmless. ⁓ But as I've developed ⁓ a desire for things to last longer,

Elizabeth Milian (09:21)
It does.

Yeah.

SJ Crawford (09:49)
I've desired to reward artists. For example, this is gonna be a little niche as a mother, but there is a children's play couch I love called the nugget. Have you ever heard of the nugget? Okay, it's quite literally just a play couch for children. It's like cushions. I actually found it before I had children. And as soon as I had them, I was like, we're getting one of these. They're an infant. They can't use it, but we're gonna get it. ⁓ Because I loved the idea around...

Elizabeth Milian (09:59)
I haven't, want to hear about it.

SJ Crawford (10:14)
why they built this company and it was to create places for children to have an imaginative play. And it didn't take long for dupes to show up. Some of my local warehouse stores were selling dupes of it. And I remember being confronted for the first time, like, I can get this cheaper or I can get this, the original. And when you buy the original, you're supporting so much more. And so as a consumer, I started realizing that for me, it wasn't just about the cheapest anymore. And I remember feeling a shift. was like, but I'm a frugal girly. Why am I paying full price for the original? for me, it kind of came down to

⁓ rewarding artists. I find that as I grow older, it's so important to reward artists. And then also like the quality was just different as well as the brand was very forward about their brand values. And one of those was paying people very livable wages. And that really resonated with me. And so they have been so careful about how they distribute and show up online so that people don't get duped.

So that really like was a big change of heart for me. So now everyone go check out nugget couches if you have little kids you may be familiar but ⁓ I think as consumers we we forget sometimes that like while companies don't want dupes or counterfeits because they're you know, They hurt the bottom line. I think consumers are waking up to that. So I'm your I'm your resident consumer today Apparently, so thank you so much for sharing that I think it's it's really important to kind of see how it all works together and kind of creates

a better economy that ultimately everybody wins. So on that note, so there's all the reasons that authenticity is good, how counterfeits have stood the test of time. But one thing we at MarkVision are really passionate about is that enforcement and protecting your brand and protecting authenticity is not just something that costs money, but it's something that grows.

So can you talk a little bit about how brand enforcement goes beyond protection and how it can actually fuel growth of a brand?

Elizabeth Milian (12:07)
Yes, absolutely. And I want to start by saying I really like this question because you're completely right. Enforcement, I think, has had a very limited and narrow story, if you will, and it's often thought of as something that is primarily defensive. And that's not the full story. We can really broaden the context and take a look at how enforcement goes beyond protection, which it does. You know, it's important. It has to.

but also it can fuel growth. And so it's really, there's a duality there. ⁓ It's going to serve more than one purpose. so, you know, couple of pieces before we dive in, I do want to acknowledge something important. And I think we can be straightforward and transparent about it. that's enforcement is an investment. We should be very clear on that. It is the price you're going to pay as a brand to protect your value.

and protect everything that you've built. It's a fact and it makes sense when you think about it. ⁓ So I do like to be straightforward about that. I would also say the fuller perspective is to recognize this again as an investment. It's got that dual nature of safeguarding your growth and also driving your growth. And it's a concept duality that a lot of us already have in another.

part of our lives. ⁓ You for example, if you are a homeowner, if you live in a home, certain things like the condition of your roof or the foundation of your house, these may not be incredibly exciting to you. It's not maybe the thing you think about first with your house, but you know you have to invest in it on an as needed basis. If you're going to preserve the solid structure that you live in, if you're going to preserve market value, these are

sort of care and maintenance, the things that you have to do. It's part of the landscape. It's really no different when it comes to your brand. Enforcement is that investment. It is also part of the ongoing care and maintenance. And so I think there's a lot of similarity, you know, in that sense. Another thing that we see is if you have a short term perspective and I get it, you know, everyone has to look at costs.

carefully and with a discerning eye. But keeping in mind, if you're trying to save in the short term, there may be an unintended consequence, which is that you're bringing on unnecessary or additional risk by trying to make a savings in the short term instead of thinking about the big picture. So again, it's that duality. And as an attorney, I like to bring things back to law, which is we have this in the law as well.

SJ Crawford (14:50)
Mm-hmm.

Elizabeth Milian (14:57)
And we have this concept that your rights, your rights will function as both a sword and a shield. So when it comes to protecting your brand, your shield is going to protect you and your brand from copycats because they're out there. And then the sword is really a tool of empowerment. It's going to help you to defend your rights and also reinforce your presence. And so.

It's really both of those things and when we recognize it that way, I think we definitely get a sense of ⁓ the fullness and we can appreciate the fullness of it.

SJ Crawford (15:33)
I love that. And ⁓ as a marketer, we're taught often to define our brand voice and how our product ties into that. But I think it's really widened my perspective on your brand is not just who you are, but who you aren't and what other representations of our brand and knocking those down and making sure they're not infiltrating the beautiful brand that I'm working hard on. There's someone out there impersonating or do...

making dupes or counterfeiting, it hurts my brand.

And as you've looked at companies and talked to brands, where do you see them stumble in this? And what happens when enforcement is purely reactive? So it's purely that shield, and they've kind of lost the sword aspect.

Elizabeth Milian (16:13)
Another great question. I'm really glad you're asking because I think we have a general understanding in life that when we are in a reactive position, there are certain disadvantages to being reactive as opposed to proactive. When it comes to brand protection and IP rights specifically, time is a big factor here and it's tied to the law. And so without getting into all the nitty gritty details, I would say

Time is an important factor because it can present some very real hurdles for you if you're in a reactive position. Why does this happen? Well, IP, your intellectual property, it's tied to this idea that if you take delayed action, if you're aware of the infringement or you should have been aware of the copiers out there, that could make enforcing your brand ⁓ a little bit more difficult or.

even a lot more difficult depending on the timeframe involved. And so you always want to make sure when you're protecting your brand that you're acting with the most agency possible. And that's going to give you confidence. It's going to give you time to make the right decisions based on the data that is meaningful for you. Because when it comes to enforcement, there's no one size fits all strategy. I think that's

probably a misconception that many people have and for good reason. Enforcement is sort of portrayed as this very defensive or very aggressive action and it takes a lot of forms in practice and in real life. And so what we see behind the scenes is that brands want to look carefully at the data, which tools like MarkVision really make that ⁓ something that's finally possible quickly.

in real time as the data is adjusting. It's a great resource because you're not going to go after every issue with the same level of intensity. You're not going to go after every enforcement. You're really going to look at the big picture and say, is this one of my meaningful marketplaces? Is this a platform where we show up as a brand and it's important to us? It's really case specific. So when you are in a reactive position, that time element again.

you might be working on some compressed deadlines, which it doesn't feel great. You you're making important decisions for your brand. And so I would say the more proactive you can be, you are better positioned. Another reality is if you are in a reactive position, the likelihood is you're dealing with related issues. And so specifically, that might look like consumer confusion.

SJ Crawford (18:41)
You

Elizabeth Milian (19:02)
It could be lost revenue. It could be reputational damage. And so all of these things would be happening sort of separately at the same time. And it's just a lot. So to the extent possible, be prepared. And we have tools to minimize having to be in a reactive position. And so we're really incredibly lucky in the brand space now to have access to these tools. And we couldn't say that 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

things are really changing and for the better.

SJ Crawford (19:34)
They are and I think that's why it's so important for brand owners, know, retail e-commerce that they look to partner with tools, obviously like MarkVision, but there's lots of tools out there. But as they're vetting them, think about not only, you know, what kind of data does this tool provide for me, but what kind of relationships do they have with those different markets? Because you pointed out like every brand has to decide where they're going to sell, how they're going to sell and using that sword strategically is really important. So look for companies and ⁓

brand protection providers that have relationships with TikTok shop, because that's a new realm that's stressing a lot of people out because it's different. ⁓ Amazon is perpetually changing. so understanding how to enforce on Amazon is endlessly fuddling. ⁓ so seeking out partners, not only in...

you know, your representation from attorneys, but also just your data providers. Are they, are they able to help us with that? Because that's something I've seen really stumps people. They're like, I had no idea my product was available on TikTok. And I don't even know how to, you know, am I going out and, you know, hacking down influencers? Nobody wants to feel that way. ⁓ in your presentation, you actually talked about the unintended consequences of influencers sharing something harmlessly. They're trying to provide a dupe and understanding in that instance, how big of a sword do you use?

and having a strategy. And I love how you said there's not one size fits all because it's not. And so we very much need this AI and this human touch, which I think is really powerful. Amazing. And so I mentioned AI. So let's get a little bit deeper into AI. AI in my opinion has kind of become synonymous with fake. And I think that's a disservice to AI, but part of that is because AI is making it harder to discern what's authentic.

Before it was just the handbags when it's in your hand, it was confusing. Is this real or not? And now it's when you're shopping online. You really can't tell what's real or not. ⁓ So that's my consumer take. from your vantage point, how is AI making authenticity harder with dupes and generative content? What are you kind of seeing AI is bringing to the table?

Elizabeth Milian (21:41)
So what we're seeing is that AI, as you mentioned, it's making it easier and faster for the bad actors to copy brands. And so certainly that raises new challenges for protecting authenticity. And it creates what I think of as an authenticity paradox as well, because historically you have brands that are relying on things like their heritage, their craftsmanship.

perhaps their product innovation and their brand storytelling. All of these things are persuasive and powerful. But now these brands are having to compete in a market, in a digital market, where AI is making it easier to generate lookalikes or perhaps fake listings, know, a number of problems, all of which blur the boundaries between what is real and can be trusted and...

what is a copy or what's a counterfeit? There's so many different ways that it can go. And so from my perspective, and I'm looking at this every day as a professional, I can see how this is incredibly blurry, confusing, and it can also feel really unfair on the human level, on the emotional level. And so I would say the things that we're seeing, it's not just a legal issue.

there is the very real piece that we shouldn't forget, which is we are trying to protect consumer trust and we're trying to protect the value for brand owners. And so it's those pieces simultaneously and the stakes are high. They do seem high, they look high. And that line as you know, between real and fake is as that line gets blurrier, trust on the consumer side understandably is going to decline and

brands and their goodwill, their reputations, they work very hard to preserve those, their marketing dollars, all of the effort that they put in to having goodwill in the marketplace. All of this sort of comes into question in a very real way. Now, on the legal side, IP and consumer protection laws are designed for this purpose. We are trying to present consumer confusion. We are trying to build and maintain

safe and trustworthy marketplaces for consumers. And then we have AI and we can say that AI has changed the scale as well as the speed of the risk. When I look at this as an issue, for me, the bottom line is that authenticity has to matter to you. It should live at the center of your brand and just like anything valuable, it deserves protection.

SJ Crawford (24:27)
Beautiful. So well said. I just I love listening to you talk about this. It's just so enchanting because it is it's just such a growing like confusing time for a lot of people because it's moving so quickly and it's almost at this point that as soon as a brand starts really taking off or having its moment in the sun it becomes a bigger target and so setting up that sword and shield early feels a bit and I've witnessed this with brands it feels a bit like I'm I'm doing this too soon

Elizabeth Milian (24:30)
Thank you.

SJ Crawford (24:56)
But truly, if you're not ready before you hit that peak, like let's say something on TikTok goes viral, at that moment you're a target and it almost de-incentivizes success in that way. so preserving that, ⁓ the economics of it all, I just think are going to be really powerful. So on that note, we said AI is a problem in that way. ⁓ Are there ways brands, and I know the answer to this, so I'm asking a very silly question, but it's important. Are there ways brands can leverage AI to strengthen their authenticity?

Elizabeth Milian (25:26)
They absolutely can. And I think it's important that we talk about it too, because this is a silver lining, right? AI has a lot to bring to the marketplace. Some of it, you know, is being used in a way that we would prefer that it's not being used. But then there's the silver lining, which is AI provides incredibly powerful tools. And so if you're using AI in the correct way, in my opinion,

you can really contribute to safeguarding authenticity and supporting your brand rather than using it in a way that's going to undermine the brand. So, you know, to take this down to a more granular level, that's definitely an encouraging aspect of AI. And ⁓ it does this in many ways. So depending on what your brand needs, what tools you need, there's a solution for you.

And so I certainly encourage people to ask themselves if you're on the brand protection side or if you're a brand owner, where am I seeing the issues? What kinds of tools, if they could be available to me with the data, the speed and the scope of the reach that I'm looking for, what kinds of tools would serve me and go look for them because they're now available. So that's, that's very exciting. And I think they're only going to get better in time as well. And so in terms of.

the problem that we're facing, we do live in a very optimal time to solve that. So that's a good piece that we shouldn't overlook. And again, why does all this matter? Well, we keep bringing it back to protecting consumers. And certainly we want to avoid confusion at the consumer level, and we want to support having a safe marketplace. A safe marketplace is inherently competitive.

But we still need that safety and we still need to trust in the decisions that we make as consumers. So all of that comes into play bigger picture. And so I think it's really exciting that we have the opportunity to explore how AI tools can support you as a brand owner or as someone who's working on the brand protection side. And I really like that AI has the opportunity to reinforce the message that if you're a brand owner,

the promise you are making to your consumers, your authenticity, your values, AI can really come in and support you there and it can be basically a business partner for your team. And so it's really interesting that we live in a time where this is finally possible.

SJ Crawford (28:04)
Amazing. I know that for me as someone who's worked in technology, I joined MarkVision not too long ago as a marketer, but AI is being offered as a solution to everything, even things that aren't really problems. And that's been very confusing for brand owners. I get solicitations all the time of like, use AI to fix this part of your business, use AI to fix this part of your business. And MarkVision was the first AI tool that I've seen, frankly, that I believe is actually solving a problem with AI that humans can do, but they could never do it on this scale.

And it truly does scale the power of the human capacity. And that has been so cool for me as a brand owner myself to be like, I now understand how AI can be a part of this and be a true partner and not just, this just takes care of something that's kind of boring. Like, no, it is powerful beyond measure. And it's solving a real problem that it needs to be, like we need to send our AI to battle against the bad actor's AI. And I think that that's what's so cool about watching companies like Mark Vision.

⁓ you know, enter the market. So thank you for sharing that. And you touched on something and I want to dig a little deeper on you were talking about brand owners. So let's say for a second, you're talking to a CMO or maybe even general counsel at a brand. What's the one move that you think they should make now to prepare for the authenticity challenges AI will continue to create in the next few years?

Elizabeth Milian (29:24)
Yes, so I would say there are certainly things you can do today that are going to be really important, not just today, but also long term. And that is to start internally within your organization. And depending on what market you serve, the size of your business, the key departments that you're going to involve in this process are going to look different. But I encourage everyone to start within your organization thinking about what is going to be your framework around.

authenticity and start putting those pieces together now. So that might look like involving legal, marketing, other leadership, ⁓ key sources within your business. You want to bring these various people together so that you can connect on and define together what does authenticity, what does enforcement look like for your brand? And I encourage everyone to also think about it as a collective responsibility.

It's not just the responsibility of your legal department. Everyone really needs to be thinking about this together so that as challenges and opportunities continue to present themselves, you do have a forward-looking plan and you're not stuck in the catch-up or reactive mode saying, gosh, we knew this was on the horizon, but we just thought we had more time. So you can certainly start building your specific internal framework now, and it's gonna vary. It's not gonna look like,

the company next to you or the company on the other side, it's going to be very tailored to you, which is fantastic. And, you know, again, big picture, the challenges that we're seeing, they're not going to be going away. You know, some of this has to do with human nature. Some of it has to do with economics. There are so many reasons why these things occur in the first place. And so the more intentional you can be today, the better prepared you will be to handle any new issues as they arise.

And I would say, you know, if I had a crystal ball looking ahead, the brands that are going to do a really great job at maintaining consumer trust, which of course is incredibly valuable, those are going to be the brands that have made a commitment to protecting their IP and they've made a commitment to safeguarding what makes them unique in the market. And ⁓ I'm excited to see, you know, those stories in the future.

SJ Crawford (31:50)
⁓ Amazing. I love it. All right, so we are nearing the end here. I appreciate everyone that's stuck around because this has been just full of gold ⁓ I have kind of an interesting question and we may we may may have to move it around a little bit because our Conversation as I hoped has kind of veered around a little bit If you had to give one directive to brands on turning truth into equity, which is kind of an obscure statement So bear with me if you could give them one directive, what would it be?

Elizabeth Milian (32:19)
Another great question. Thank you, SJ. I just love talking about this. At the heart of all of this, authenticity matters, creativity matters, and uniqueness matters. These are the baselines. These are the foundations of your brand. And so what is unique to your brand? Define what that is and then protect it. That is true brand advocacy. It starts with what is genuine.

what is true to your brand, and then you prioritize it. You don't want to lose sight of why it matters. ⁓ One of the positives here, of course, is that protection doesn't just look like legal action. It's really all about connection, whether that's internally or whether that's a public connection with your consumers. And you have a community, your community, your consumers, those can be your greatest allies. And so when we

think about turning truth into equity. There are so many ways to educate your consumers and have a public facing message. can be, you can get really creative with this. It could be a tab on your website that talks about the story of your products or the story of your innovation or how to spot an authentic product versus a copy. What are your materials? What are your ingredients? Why are those better for consumers?

and why are they not able to replicate that if you get a cheaper alternative? And so I really think the education piece is really the connection. It's the communication. And so when you bring that all together, that's really where you turn your truth into equity. And your audience is going to find new ways to connect with you through that. So it's incredibly exciting. But we have covered a lot of ground here. And so again,

at the most basic level. We do not want to lose sight of why authenticity matters because it is meaningful. It will remain meaningful and it is genuinely valuable. It is both your sword and your shield.

SJ Crawford (34:30)
Amazing, well, Elizabeth, thank you so much for joining us today. I hope we've had lots of questions in the chat. I think the audience will hopefully see more from you. I, so excuse me, as I mentioned earlier will be sending out access to your keynote for other people to join in on as well as the product demos. People can find you on LinkedIn and Instagram, is that correct? Awesome.

Elizabeth Milian (34:51)
Yes, and I love connecting

with people, so please don't hesitate to reach out.

SJ Crawford (34:55)
She really does. I reached out to her like a total weirdo and she responded to me. That's how we're friends. I found her

on the internet. So feel free to reach out to Elizabeth, give me a shout, but we'll really enjoy chatting today and I hope to hear from everyone at some point. Have a good rest of your day.

Elizabeth Milian (35:10)
Thank you.

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